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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:03 am 
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I really like the YouTube tutorials for the guitar. If I pick & choose there's always something that I can get my head round 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:33 am 
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I'm also trying to learn to play the guitar, for the n-th time. My first attempt was when I was at school, when I learnt a few open chords and a couple of barre chords, and just one strumming rhythm which seemed (and still seems) to fit any old song. After that I gave up for lack of time, and it wasn't until I got a job many years afterwards that I bought an electric guitar and started playing again. I took lessons for five years, but I didn't feel I was making any progress, so I quit. I suppose the problem was mine, not the teacher's, because from what I've read here and there, his lessons seem to be what guitar lessons should be. I've had a classical training (piano), so I already knew all the theory, but classical training has made me over-dependent on written scores, I'm afraid. My problem is that I didn't seem to assimilate what I was taught. I forgot the chord sequences after a week or two, and was never able to play a proper solo. The only difference I found after those five years is that I got sort of a better agility in my left hand when asked to play a new strange chord. This was about three years ago.

Last November a cousin of mine gave me a few guitar books he had had gathering dust for some years. I've seen you've been talking about them, they are Mel Bay's. My cousin says he had all six or seven (I don't know) books, but he's only been able to find the first four. Anyway, he never went past the middle of the first one. They are very thin books (not the expanded edition), and if they had CDs, they must have lost them long ago. What encouraged me about them is that they seemed something closer to what I'm used to: written lessons that I must learn to play well before moving on to the next one. What discouraged me is that I've lost all I ever learnt before. But then I thought that I'd start again from scratch. I don't know whether this will work or not. I haven't made much progress yet, because owing to back problems I haven't been able to study much after January.

In my previous attempts I had always studied while seated, with the result that I was completely unable to play anything standing. This time I'm playing while standing all the time, and without looking at the fingerboard at all. Maybe I'm doing it the rough way, but so far (first book, page 33) it's not that bad. Besides, I don't know how to look at the fingerboard withour tilting the guitar in a very unnatural way.

Anyway, it's great to read postings by other people who are trying to learn, too. I'm sure it'll turn out very useful to learn how you're going through it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:55 am 
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Hi there Colombo, and welcome to the madhouse :D Funny that this thread should come up just now, as today I spent some quality time with my guitar for the first time in a few weeks. Really enjoyed that. My main problem is trying to practice in the evening when I'm too tired - the information just won't go in! I took lessons for a couple of years, but decided to have a break from them as I didn't think I was being fair to my tutor, with insufficient practice, and the fact that I feel quite embarrassed by my ineptitude :oops:
I'm not a natural musician, tone deaf & clumsy! I can't get the theory to sink in at all & my playing is 'plunk plunk plunk' a lot of the time. But, I get great pleasure from learning to play something, and slowly my fingers seem to be going in the right places. It may be that I have to just learn some pieces 'parrot fashion'. My tutor has said I can go back anytime, or have a lesson here & there whenever I want, which is what I plan to do. He was always keen on blues improvisation. I really want to get my head round that, but I seem to have a mental block. Anyway, I'm keeping on with it. I might get there eventually :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Hi! It's great to know that you are doing good, even if it's not every day you play. What you say about your tutor is more or less what I felt when I stopped having lessons. I honestly told my teacher that I didn't feel I was learning much (he told me I was, but I didn't quite believe him), and that I wasn't too motivated. Getting up at 5:00 and not arriving back home until 19:00 in the best of cases, I did need that motivation to sit and play every day in spite of feeling like going directly to bed. And, as you say, not practising enough time or frequently enough (which was clearly the case for my fifth year of lessons) made me feel like I wasn't being fair to my teacher or to myself. Maybe he was happy just putting his hand out for me to give him the banknotes every day, but he seemed to enjoy teaching, so I must have been a frustrating pupil to him. His door is open any time I want to go back, he said.

I'd never felt a dead loss at music, although I'm certainly no musical genius; I've tried several instruments before, and I've never failed this way. Everything you say seems to fit my case. Mental block, parrot fashion, tutor keen on blues impovisation (which maybe I'm not familiar enough with)...

Please carry on posting every time you feel happy with your playing. Kind of makes me feel like trying myself. I'm sure you'll get there eventually. Stubborness is the word!

By the way, may I ask, how do you approach learning a song by ear? I always try to find the chords first, but I seldom succeed completely, so I don't usually go farther. In the best of cases -only sometimes- I get the right sequence of major or minor chords, but then I must turn to the internet to add all those sevenths and such (except in cases of divine inspiration in which I play a V7 just before a I without help).

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:21 am 
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Ah yes, my tutor, too, insisted I was doing well, but like yourself I wasn't so sure. I always came away with new things to learn, which we'd been through during the lesson, but when I got home I no longer completely understood!

If only I could learn something by ear...I can't tell a b flat from a flat tyre. I can follow tabs though, so that's how I learn mainly. YouTube videos I find are good for seeing techniques & fingerings etc.

It's kind of the same way I was with photography. I loved setting up the camera & playing about with exposure & so on. Had all the filters & lenses, but my picture composition was awful. I had no eye for it whatsoever :*:

The thing is though, I get the greatest pleasure when I've learned to play something; seeing my own fingers move about the frets & hearing something vaguely musical coming out. Makes me almost optimistic at times. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:49 am 
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My guitar lessons consisted in playing first major scales all over the fretboard (always in G, for some unknown reason) and their corresponding 7th chords with the root in the 4th, 5th and 6th strings. Since this was exactly the same every day, I managed to memorize it (although by now I've forgotten everything). Then my tutor taught me some nice chord sequence every day, which I learnt by copying his fingering (although I knew enough theory to have been able to tell which chords they were, had I been asked). Then he improvised while I played rhythm, and then I went into a minimalist mood when he played rhythm (one note each ten seconds, or so). This was different each day, and although some times I was able to remember the chord sequence when I arrived home and perhaps during the week, it all went off my head when I had to make room for the new sequence on the following week.

I am good at picking melodies by ear, but when it comes to chords... Ugh! Or not even chords: as soon as I've got something that's not a simple melody, I'm lost. For example, the other day I was trying to figure out how to play the intro to "Born Under a Bad Sign", but, to begin with, I cannot tell how many guitars there are, and what each of them plays. Maybe if I got all the instruments isolated from one another, I'd be able to figure out more things, but it's like every song has more notes than my head is able to process. I end up not being able to tell a guitar from a keyboard. As for the YouTube videos, I must be very demanding, because most of the times I find a tutorial for a song, the differences with the original stick out like a sore thumb for me, and I don't feel like learning something I won't be satisfied with (I know that even if they've got it wrong, they've got it much better than I, so it wouldn't be such a waste of time, but I cannot help thinking like that). Now and then I manage to learn a good version of a song, but most of the times I learn a bit and get stuck somewhere. And anyway, I forget how to play them the moment I haven't done so for one month. The only song that has stuck is "Here Comes the Sun" by the Beatles, which is my pride and joy... But I must be careful not to be requested to play something in front of the same people twice, or they would realize I cannot play anything else.


loftyeric2 wrote:
It's kind of the same way I was with photography. I loved setting up the camera & playing about with exposure & so on. Had all the filters & lenses, but my picture composition was awful. I had no eye for it whatsoever :*:


Good heavens! I was never told I had a twin from which I was separated at birth. I used to take hundreds of photographs till I realized how bad they were, and now I go as far as framing the picture before deciding I won't press the shutter release because the photograph will be lousy. I'm in the middle of a pessimistic period regarding photography. Maybe that's why I'm in the middle of an optimistic period regarding my guitar playing. The artist in me is striving to come out! :?: :roll: :oops: :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 am 
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There does seem to be rather a lot of similarities going on here :D Maybe it's an eye - ear thing :? I regard myself as a practical, hands on person - I understand how things work & can mostly pull off an effective repair.....But, my repairs tend to be rather industrial! Very strong but not terribly aesthetic; mildly sloping shelves, large bolts, overenthusiastic reinforcements etc :roll: I'm envious of skilled engineers whose work is a thing of beauty & skill alongside the practicality.

My Guitar 'masterpiece' is Walk Don't Run, which I find easy. Perhaps that's because it is just that? And, again, as you say, if I learn something, a few days on something different & I've forgotten it! Although strangely If there's a technique I'm struggling with, if I come back to it after a break I suddenly find I can do it.
I really struggle with music theory. Can't get my head round it. The funny thing is I can see how it's all meant to work, and how it does work, but I can't work it out, if that makes any sense. I realise it's rather like maths in the way it's built. Perhaps therein lies the problem - I'm not mathematical. I can take a gearbox apart & diagnose why it's not working but I couldn't begin to explain the ratios.

I wonder if we are about to unlock the code to guitar understanding via this thread - now that would be cool ..>

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:48 am 
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For me its all about being cool - have a guitar that looks cool - the older and fatter I get the harder this becomes - I've always had black guitars as Johnny Cash had black guitars.

Chords are for me - in fact big barre chords are tough as my hands are a bit tiny - whilst finger picking / solo stuff is much harder.

I twang and strum - getting lost in my middle aged fantasy rock star status world - never tried to play a song right through tho'- never try to to play a song so that it is a perfect replica of some one else's performance.

At least you [me] are doing it - keep up the good work have fun and dont forget to boogie with Stu.

[OK the cool bit was a lie :wink: then again ...]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:29 am 
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Hey guys :D

I make a living from teaching guitar and being a general musical odd-job person, so if you've any questions, be they regarding technique, chords or theory; advice about guitars, amps or effects; or anything to do with music, let me know!

I might not be able to get back to you immediately, plus my typing skills are quite lame, but I will endeavour to help — if I can!

Keep on twangin' 8)

Michael x


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:55 am 
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Hi Michael, thanks for that kind offer - I'll be back to try your patience, shortly :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:29 pm 
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loftyeric2 wrote:
I really struggle with music theory. Can't get my head round it. The funny thing is I can see how it's all meant to work, and how it does work, but I can't work it out, if that makes any sense. I realise it's rather like maths in the way it's built. Perhaps therein lies the problem - I'm not mathematical. I can take a gearbox apart & diagnose why it's not working but I couldn't begin to explain the ratios.


Funny. I tend to believe I'm too mathematical for this (when it comes to real maths, I'm kind of too philological, or any other unrelated thing you like). To give an extreme example, when my tutor played a rhythm for me to learn, some times I had to process it like "all right, that's two quavers, a quaver rest, two semiquavers and two crotchets" before being able to replicate it. It's like I cannot go from theory to practice in a smooth way.


Poppy Dog wrote:
For me its all about being cool - have a guitar that looks cool


I think I'd only feel comfortable with the crappiest-looking guitar. Otherwise, everybody would think I'm the stupid nincompoop who believes that having a great guitar will do it all. I'm a stupid nincompoop, but not because I believe that!


Michael Davenport wrote:
Hey guys :D

I make a living from teaching guitar and being a general musical odd-job person, so if you've any questions, be they regarding technique, chords or theory; advice about guitars, amps or effects; or anything to do with music, let me know!

I might not be able to get back to you immediately, plus my typing skills are quite lame, but I will endeavour to help — if I can!

Keep on twangin' 8)

Michael x


Thanks a lot for your kind offer. You can be sure you'll hear from me :mrgreen:. But I always seem to ask myself either very specficic questions ("How can I play the solo in "Serious"?) or too general ones ("What do I want to learn to play the guitar for?"), so I'll try to think of some reasonable ones. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Yesterday I had a lot of fun with the guitar. As I said, the only thing I'm not utterly lost at are melodies, so I spent more than half an hour playing (something resembling) the solo of "Dark Road". I was concerned just with hitting the right notes, with the odd slide here and there and a bit of Bigsby too. But as soon as I can I'll listen to the real thing with more attention so as to try to spot the right slides and so on. And the next thing will be to try to find something to play the rest of the time. Just standing there humming and waiting for the solo is kind of stupid!

By the bye, what's the right way to achieve that guitar sound? Is it a matter of using an effect unit, of playing vibrato with the fingers...? I love it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Hello Colombo

Dark Road: a superb track; so simple, yet full of depth.

I suppose you could strum the chords between the solos 8)

As far as the sound goes, from having a listen to the points you mention, I think the vibrato is being generated primarily with a Bigsby; It's a little too subtle (in my opinion) to have been added with the left-hand, and what's more the notes are too 'solid' to have been played with the left-hand wiggling around.

To get some thing approaching the amp sound, plenty of reverb and a touch of overdrive — just enough so that the amp distorts when you really dig-in to a note.

Keep on twanging!

Michael x


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:04 am 
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Hi Michael, thanks a lot for your help!

Michael Davenport wrote:
I suppose you could strum the chords between the solos 8)


Yes, that's what I was mainly thinking of :mrgreen:. I spoke about it so tentatively because it'll take a lot of work. I could go the easy way and search for the chords in the internet, but I want to try to figure them out myself, at least a first approximation. I'm sure they're not too complicated, but my ear is what it is, and no better.

Thanks a lot for your hints about getting the right sound. What you say about the vibrato is certainly too subtle for me (I got to use the Bigsby almost by chance), but I think that the way you've explained it is great, because it helps to understand how to listen, to what things one must pay attention. I cannot really say I hear the vibrato in an obvious way. I just read that Richard likes guitars with a Bigsby, and I thought "All right, that must be because he uses it". So I tried, and liked what I heard. But I cannot say I can hear it :cry:. I played it only in the long notes at the end of each phrase, though.

If playing the guitar seems difficult to me, getting the sound one want sounds extraterrestrial. There are so many variables, using this or that pickup, each with volume and tone knobs, this or that channel of the amplifier, equalization of the amp, not to mention all those external effects... I don't worry too much about that, though. So far, learning to hit the notes is enough!

Now, to search those chords!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Sounds like you're having a lot of fun, which is exactly what it's all about :-)

If you'd like any help with the chords, let me know. I do know what they are, but won't pass the information on as yet. Your resolve to attempt working out the chords is a very positive thing; 'playing by ear' is a bit like a muscle: the more you use it, the stronger it becomes. But don't hesitate to ask if you'd like some advice :-)

Also, let me know what gear you're using as I might be able to offer some arbitary settings that will help you attain something close to Mr Hawley's guitar tone.

You're approaching using the Bigsby perfectly: adding a little 'float' to the longer notes, but there are no hard-fast rules — that's the great thing about music ;-)

A few other things you can try for Dark Road: use a heavy pick and play fairly close to the bridge; this will help add some twang.

Cheers,

Michael x

Ps: sorry if there are lots of errors in this message; I typed it on my iPhone.


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