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 Post subject: Rat on your neighbour
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:08 am 
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Hawleytastic!
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proposed New Labour policy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... tch-policy

So - they decide it's an agreeable policy to turn people against each other rather than prosecute MP's who took the piss with *our* money, get the banking industry to pay back what *we* gave them, effectively prosecute arms companies who break the law who *we* subsidise , companies who evade corporate tax & deprive *us* of money etc etc. *Billions* more between that lot alone than what this sorry, cynical endeavour would claw back. Fuck me. :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:57 am 
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There is no end to their evil.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:56 am 
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That'll engender a community culture! :shock:

It just brings to mind similar methods of ratting on your neighbours used in the French Revolution and by the Nazis in the Second World War...... :?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:40 pm 
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The mighty Restarts have a ditty on this very subject

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Oan_TF-NA

They're not solving the poverty trap
Instead they're asking people to be rats
Fink on your neighbours its poor against poor
You get jealous when someone gets more
Mind yer business and watch yer back
you curtain twitching informant rat


Benefit rip off - give us a tip off
We re not playing that - so you can just fuck off


A nark a grass a lowlife fink
You're in the same boat but you're making it sink
Spouting libel down the hotline phone
Getting people evicted and tossed out of home
What kind of person does it take
To turn your neighbour over to the state

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:18 pm 
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I take it that it is the principle of how benefit cheats are caught rather than the fact they are caught that is the issue here? Or do we condone the work-shy and benefit cheats?
Surely, anyone who defrauds the country should be brought to task whether it is politicians (who are now facing up their abuse of expenses and are having the expenses rules clearly defined) or skivers and dodgers who have no intention of contributing in the community, only taking from it?
The Banks are somewhat different: they were greedy and careless and got us into difficulties because of that. However, we need the financial system to work and therefore have to support it through the tough times. That said it should happen without rewarding senior bank individuals whilst the recovery is in progress.
It was seen as fair play to shop MP's abusing "our" money, what's the difference?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Longpigsdad wrote:
I take it that it is the principle of how benefit cheats are caught rather than the fact they are caught that is the issue here? Or do we condone the work-shy and benefit cheats?
Surely, anyone who defrauds the country should be brought to task whether it is politicians (who are now facing up their abuse of expenses and are having the expenses rules clearly defined) or skivers and dodgers who have no intention of contributing in the community, only taking from it?
The Banks are somewhat different: they were greedy and careless and got us into difficulties because of that. However, we need the financial system to work and therefore have to support it through the tough times. That said it should happen without rewarding senior bank individuals whilst the recovery is in progress.
was seen as fair play to shop MP's abusing "our" money, what's the difference?



Well said that man ..> , talking total sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Sad to say 'cheating' appear to be endemic - after todays news I expect the House of Lords to be burnt down by next November...

Or should we follow the lead of the Sons of Glyndwr [?] and burn down these homes - as the fuckers are never in them.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:18 pm 
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What about this everyday case.. Ok I know the guy accross the road from me is creaming an extra few grad for a disability he hasnt got ok. I can go grass him up. Or, I can look at the hypocrites who are looking to kick his ass for this sort of thing who are creaming off millions not thousands in expenses they are not entitled to. These are the elected representatives who by the moral logic should be above all this and setting the example ? yet they are the biggest criminal of the whole lot. The only difference being that the guy accross the road robbing the couple of grand will see his ass in jail when caught, where as the politicians will simply get a slap on the wrist after an apology. Still keep their jobs, pensions etc. Robbing which it is tens of thousands of pounds or millions ofeuros whatever, call me old fashioned but that would normally see a guy in jail too right ? no not in these cases, same rules don't apply it seems. There are people in jail for non payment of TV licences for christ sake. Go after the people at the top the real bad guys, when they are hung drawn and quarted and get what they deserve, maybe that might work as an example to those further down the ladder, the only example they have had thus far (and I am by no means saying this excuses defrauding you fellow citizen) is that its rife at the top so why shouldnt they play the system and cream it in for themselves at the bottom of the scale ?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Longpigsdad wrote:
I take it that it is the principle of how benefit cheats are caught rather than the fact they are caught that is the issue here?


Doh, just read Eoin's eloquent response after I wrote this and he pretty much covers it but anyway..

Partly, yes. But where I believe that it differs in principle from the other examples I mentioned is that people on benefits are so skint (£64/week) they are often forced to become "cheats" just to get by. The work/benefit balance is so precarious that it's almost discouraging to those who are trying to find work. Get a low paying job (there's not many high paying ones around if you're under educated, never mind low paying ones), you get housing benefit stopped, if you have kids you have to make arrangements for them etc etc. So getting a job creates a whole load of other problems. This measure, if it's set up in place, will cost a lot in terms of manpower & set up costs which will obviously have to be taken out of any relatively small proceeds that come from it. And if these people get caught they get prosecuted.

The mps were not in that situation and they took a whole lot more when they didn't *need* to. They get paid a decent salary yet collectively refused to confront the fact that their expenses system was being abused until they were forced to when the expenses documents were leaked. People on 70 grand + a year claiming for *irons* to claiming for 2 houses. Sure they're paying the money back but they *knowingly* abused the system and if not prosecuted like '"benefit cheats" will (because most of them weren't technically breaking the law) they should at *least* be fined and deselected - this *won't* happen. Don't you think these people have an obligation to properly right wrongs before going ahead with a policy like this?

Don't know if you've seen that programme that's been on a couple of weeks called Tower Block of Commons? Despite its ridiculous premise - mps go to live in a tower block for a week (like that's enough time to get a handle on the situation and start dealing with the problems of accumulated expenses & debt over a period of time when they can go back to their big houses afterwards), it's a good programme in that it details not only the typical lifestyles of those on benefits, but also gives an indication of how clueless mps can be when they're out of of their cosy surroundings. These people have *no* idea and given the scale of petty and grand abuse in Parliament I believe their outlook to be widespread. So, this policy, in my opinion, stinks.

Not all MPs are like this obviously - neither are all benefit cheats skivers & dodgers. So if there's going to be a blanket policy of punishment like the one proposed then it has to start being set on the people implementing it.

I'll end up writing an essay if I get into the bankers, corporations etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:53 pm 
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Righteous words brother Eoin. My brother in law has had cancer, a tumour in his eye, which has made him unable to go back to his job as a lorry driver. His company have failed to find him another job, despite being obliged under the law to do so. On top of this, he's had his meagre £64 a week benefits stopped by the government because they deem him fit to return to work. As well as this, they're insisting they've overpaid him and are seeking to recoup all the money he's received since before Xmas. So, despite working full time since he was 16, paying his taxes, and generally being an upstanding and honest member of the community, he's left with the prospect of paying his mortgage and supporting his family with precisely zilch.

The problem with all this discussion is that for every piss taker that's cheating the system, there's another person being f***ed over.

There are people in the nick (a statistically disproportionate number of them women) for not paying their TV license or shoplifting food from the supermarket. I used to work for a local paper and the courts would send us lists of them – people criminalised for not having enough money to feed their kids. Of course, they don't have parliamentary privilege to stop them from being prosecuted or enough cash to pay back the money they have "mistakenly" taken. It's a shitty state of affairs in a shitty system and damning that instead of trying to solve the problem, we have a government insistent on prosecuting the victims of poverty. It's just shameful and wrong. Sorry if it sounds like I'm on my soapbox – but it just makes me fume.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:10 am 
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All I want to say is FUCK THEM.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:43 pm 
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Can't say I can condone benefit fraud, it's theft, plain and simple. you can say that we should deal with the people at the top first with the expenses scandal but the fact is that one of the many reasons the country is hundreds of millions of pounds in debt because of people across the class system in all spectrums of society defrauding us in various ways. I'm pretty sure you don't get a prison sentence for a first offence of benefit fraud, not according to the adverts on the tv at the moment anyway. If you steal, you should be arrested and prosecuted, with a suitable sentence depending on the severity and duration of the crime. I for one resent paying tax for someone to claim for a disability they haven't got.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:31 pm 
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But most crime is poverty based. You want less crime then do something proper to combat the poverty which has actually widened since new labour came to power. This is small scale stuff compared to the crime at the top. Corporate crime represents the same percentage as street crime, about 3% each. Yet you always hear about the supposed chronic knife crime and 'broken britain'. It's a complete racket, classic divide and conquer.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Alan Noir wrote:
But most crime is poverty based. You want less crime then do something proper to combat the poverty which has actually widened since new labour came to power. This is small scale stuff compared to the crime at the top. Corporate crime represents the same percentage as street crime, about 3% each. Yet you always hear about the supposed chronic knife crime and 'broken britain'. It's a complete racket, classic divide and conquer.


I'm not trying to categorise crimes in order of importance, or class base, I just believe in arresting and prosecuting criminals, whether the crime is driven by poverty or otherwise. The reason we have our justice system is to decide fair sentences based on circumstances.. for people (not necessarily yourself) to suggest it's ok for a person to commit a crime because someone is a bit hard up or say "well, the mp's swindled a few quid, so what's the harm?" is quite honestly the logic of a child copying someone's bad behaviour in a playground and using a similar excuse of "well they did it" when reprimanded.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:34 pm 
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The trouble with this type of behaviour apart from the 'divide and rule' principal that it so successfully propagates is what it does to the Disabled. I know people who have disabilities that are not so apparent and some whose disabilities vary from day to day. Those people are now beginning to be sneered at for no justifiable reason. they feel paranoid although it is not really paranoia because they have good reason to be worried. the govenment is asking neighbours to pass judgement on others and stir up trouble for them. Attitudes towards the disabled are actively being encouraged to turn against them and the media is feeding this change
If you go to any disabled forums on the net you will see people with MS; ME Arthritis and other Major diseases are feeling very disturbed by these witch hunts.

- Do they not have enough problems to deal with?

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