Richard Hawley

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:42 pm 
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The mass protest wasn't meant to be anywhere near where Prince Charles was being driven, Argyll Street where the Palladium is and Oxford Street are well away from where the march was taking place but protesters decided to go elsewhere once they were curtailed at Parliament Square.

I daresay Top Shop and Carphone Warehouse are not too happy about the destruction of their windows - something else I doubt the students were involved in.

Undoubtedly there were the usual people in the protest who are only there to stir things up and cause damage.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:48 pm 
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The mass protest wasn't meant to be anywhere near where Prince Charles was being driven, Argyll Street where the Palladium is and Oxford Street are well away from where the march was taking place but protesters decided to go elsewhere once they were curtailed at Parliament Square.


Well the silly twat should have taken the tube anyway :wink:

I heard the Topshop owner had a huge amount of tax debt written off by the government, so maybe that's why they went for that.

Some people tried to storm the National Gallery in trafalgar square. That's just stupid.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:12 pm 
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I don't necessarily condone violence, but the most successful protests (eg Poll tax) seem to involve a bit of violence and a bit of force.

The police are bastards in most situations, they see everything as a nuisance rather than part of their job, like they expect to get the job and suddenly see the whole world behave and obey the law, so it wouldn't surprise me if they've provoked the crowds and then made the most of it.

Our country sits back and takes whatever we are given, it's just the way we are unfortunately. Look at the pension age going up whilst EU members put theirs down to 55, what happened in this country? A few moans. Look at France, they made international news and got a compromise.

I fully support the students


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:34 pm 
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I always believed that the job of the police is to uphold the Law. To me it seems that today's police force believe that they are the Law. A subtle difference. You only have to watch some of the reality cop shows on TV and the police come across as no more than just another gang on the streets. Anyone who regularly goes to a football match will probably be all too aware of how intimidatory the police can be if they want to.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:08 pm 
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RP wrote:
Peaceful protest is very very powerful. I don't think it's always in the interest of the government to allow protests to remain peaceful. It seems like very little is taught in schools about Martin Luther King and Ghandi because, let's not forget, they won.


Great people without a doubt and thats not mentioning people like John Lennon & Aung San Suu Kyi who singlehandedly had an entire government shaking in their boots through no violence whatsoever

Unfortunately, its also fair to say that without persistence - peace can be quickly forgotten- its the bad things that stick in our mind rather than the little victories

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:37 pm 
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the thing thats important to remember about non violent protest is that when you have a peaceful protest it starkly highlights the extreme's in the behaviour of the protesters and the police........in this case it is easy for the police to give justifiable cause for their heavy handed tactics because some folks were violent.........Student or not,Numpties throwing stuff in a protest is enough of an excuse to provide the police these days with a perfect opportunity to crack a walnut.......with a massive hammer.....it seems that any protest is highjacked in our not so brave new world by any fuck wit with a grudge

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:18 pm 
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I agree that peaceful protest is very powerful and effective. But I think sometimes passions are such that non-violent action isn't possible.

When I was a teenager, I read a really brilliant book called the 43 Group by Morris Beckman, which told the story of a group of 43 Jewish ex-servicemen who returned from the the Second World War and the horror of the Holocaust, only to discover fascists organising on the streets of the East End of London. They took the decision to beat them off the streets and traveled from fascist rally to rally in black cabs driven by sympathetic drivers. One of them, freakily, was Vidal Sassoon (always gets my shampoo dollar as a result) It's a great book and it sort of changed my view. Wikipedia has something on it but I think it's out of print.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43_Group

Anyway, whilst I am in no way suggesting the student situation is the same, sometimes people are too angry to be measured, especially when they're young. If this were France or Spain, they'd think last night was a bit of a tea party but I guess we don't have that sort of tradition. x


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:55 pm 
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looks like someone got badly beaten, lets hope he is ok

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:34 pm 
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yes i saw that on the news,he hardly looks like a chap that could threaten a police officer armed with either a truncheon or a riot batton does he???????????poor kid.

Thanks for the tip on the book Helen i will look out for it....however,and i know you sort of said this already,i can't possibly equate the student situation with Jews returning from the horrors of the war and the camps and reacting to seeing the blackshirts walking the streets of London.It was,i think,the right thing to do.After all they had been through who wouldn't react like that?My next door neighbours at my Mum and Dad's old house were Jewish Londoners who used to tell me stories about hand to hand fighting on the streets with the black shirts.......they were from Cricklewood though which isn't the same area.They had two massive brass cannon shells next to their open coal fire for years until my Dad discovered they were still bloody live......we all left that house in a hurry we got the police out to sort it out..........and there you go..........who you going to call for an unexploded bomb in your house?Clegg?.........a musician?...........a student?.......nah......a copper.........odd isn't it our world?and riot police are very different to beat bobbies

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:48 pm 
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The police who handled the evacuation of our flats tonight (see tedium corner) were extremely helpful. Usually they come into the block to turf out the drug takers/dealers that get in, tonight it was to get everybody out in case the gas cylinders went up.

The attitude of some residents arriving as we were being evacuated however, was not good. Refusing to go and trying to push past, being mouthy and aggressive.

Some of the riot police do seem to be a bit 'trigger happy' and just saw a bit on the news where one does seem to hit a student without reason, but the scenario starts with the policeman lashing out so we don't get to see what (if any) provocation there was for that action.

Let's hope any investigation is done openly and honestly.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:45 am 
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Richard Hawley wrote:
Thanks for the tip on the book Helen i will look out for it....however,and i know you sort of said this already,i can't possibly equate the student situation with Jews returning from the horrors of the war and the camps and reacting to seeing the blackshirts walking the streets of London.It was,i think,the right thing to do.After all they had been through who wouldn't react like that?My next door neighbours at my Mum and Dad's old house were Jewish Londoners who used to tell me stories about hand to hand fighting on the streets with the black shirts.......they were from Cricklewood though which isn't the same area.They had two massive brass cannon shells next to their open coal fire for years until my Dad discovered they were still bloody live......we all left that house in a hurry we got the police out to sort it out..........and there you go..........who you going to call for an unexploded bomb in your house?Clegg?.........a musician?...........a student?.......nah......a copper.........odd isn't it our world?and riot police are very different to beat bobbies


You're right, it isn't the same thing. But he raises some good arguments in the book – Morris Beckman is still knocking around, I heard him speaking a few years back. I had a few things to do with those sorts of chaps because I edited a book written by a Holocaust survivor (it's a long and complicated story) called Leon Greenman. Think the 43 Group is out of print but I know a wee anarchist book chappy who might be able to get hold of one – if I find one, it's on me.

And the shell story is funny – my grandad's friend had an UXB at the bottom of his garden and he used to bring us kids to look at it. Suppose people were so used to danger, they sort of got blase.

And hope you were OK Denise and the flats unharmed. Didn't know you were a West Ham girl, Ladyblue comes from West Ham and I'm just down the road. Small world, eh. Keep safe. x


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:10 pm 
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that is most kind of you re the book i will look out for it too ta flower ..>


It seems now that the dust has settled a bit the student riots look a little closer to six of one and half a dozen of the other........although i still maintain the students were right.........and you shouldn't charge folks with horses.....that is insane

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:32 am 
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helenwatson wrote:
I agree that peaceful protest is very powerful and effective.


That famous photograph taken by Bernie Boston ( i think)....in 1967 at the pentagon...with hippes placing white flowers into the gun barrels of the national guard troops.....amazing..


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:15 am 
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Some proocative images of the violence here -

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/12/london_tuition_fee_protest.html

(Image 7 onwards...)


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