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 Post subject: The death of Bin Laden
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:58 am 
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Hawleytastic!
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Osama Bin Laden was the perpetrator or instigator of numerous atrocities and his death in the manner reported was always a likely eventuality.

It's disturbing though that his end is shrouded in such mystery and leaves open the idea that he wasn't actually killed.

The triumphalism and claims of "justice" sadly reinforce the notion that the USA and its allies, chief among them Britain, are war mongers and aggressors. Where is the justice when there is nobody brought to account in the way we in the west "pride ourselves" on, the trial, the questioning, the resort to something other than summary execution, the different standards? Failing this and accepting that people who play with guns always face a brutal end for themselves, why is there a cloak of mystery and confusion that means the gung ho shouts of justice seem somehow rather hollow? A body, a witnessed burial etc etc etc would have offered a dignified end showing a different set of standards to those of Bin Laden and his followerrs, and for all those who have lost their friends and families through the hate of this war a transparent closure.

It is surely the duty of the elected representatives of America and its allies to set aside the natural urge to wave a flag and to show some humility in the face of another death in a horrible war, yes it's ok to express relief that such a man can no longer wage war in the way he has but why behave and sound like vigilantes?

Perhaps Obama might now address the outstanding issues of Guantanamo Bay and show to the world that there is a different means of dealing with people which involves fairness and justice and a legal process that is clear and transparent and that illegal wars, disregard for the sovereignty of anyone who gets in the way - just imagine if a Pakistani military force dropped in on an encampment in the USA and killed those in it, are not the true characteristics of "Western civilization".

War is a nasty business, how we deal with the outcome of war and how we treat those captured and detained as a result of war and how our leaders conduct themselves in the face of the loss of human life on all sides is where there is a real responsibility to set a better example. The triumphalism and inflated claims in the wake of Bin Laden's death aren't something to be proud of and cheapen the claims for the virtues of the "democratic western society". We need to set standards not measure ourselves against the worst examples and claim we are better.

I'm no apologist for Osama Bin Laden, without him in the world there is one less person who sees indiscriminate killing as a justifiable means to an end, an end not through consent but through terror and fear. The manner of his death, the obscurity of the truth surrounding it and the undignified glorying in death of our politicians isn't right in any way shape or form.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:51 am 
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Geordie Admin Dominatrix
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I agree. I've been thinking a lot about this, and while i'm glad he's gone and abhor everything he was responsible- allegedly responsible for in some instances, although the balance of probability would indicate he was indeed a ruthless war mongerer capable of anything- it disturbs me that anyone could be hunted down and taken out like this.
It's an eye for an eye mentality and i'm sure it happens more than we're made aware of.
I have a pathological hatred of violence in any form and o can never comprehend one human beings desire to wield power over or physically hurt another, and that feeling extends to everyone, no matter what they've done.I kind of wish they'd captured him, brought him to trial with it's inevitable end. Then of course i'm hitting another dilemma cos the only outcome would be the death penalty and that conflicts with what i feel.
One thing that's sure, there'll be another dictator pops up to take his place soon enough and we will see the cycle repeating itself.
I think the true horror of this is that we haven't civilised out yhe ability and desire to kill and maim, whatever name it's in.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:32 am 
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Hawleytastic!
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maggie wrote:
I think the true horror of this is that we haven't civilised out yhe ability and desire to kill and maim, whatever name it's in.


True.

The old conspiracy theorists will still say he's not dead even if a pic is posted - CGI is a wonderful thing.

For a lot of radical folks Bin Laden will be their Guevara.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:46 am 
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Secretly Canadian
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It makes me laugh how the news keeps reporting on "the head of Al Qaeda" having been killed (if he has been...). That'll be the former head of Al Qaeda. It's not like the rest of them will pack up and go home. Yes it's good that one more of their number has been brought to 'justice' for want of a better word, but it's still a drop in the ocean (no pun intended).

Rightly or wrongly, if it was intended as a smash and grab execution, i can understand why they might have done that rather than try to bring him to trial. The short sharp shock will probably have less of an impact on/provide less means for those seeking 'revenge' or making more of an exhibition of what's happened. Rather than an exended trial, the security involved of holding him, and advanced knowledge of the date and location of any execution.

It doesn't end anything.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:54 am 
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Hawleytastic!

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This weekend has been more like one of Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Hawleytastic!
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Two good articles here.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/mi ... 35510.html

http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/ar ... nion/12141

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:10 pm 
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I like how the assumption is that a picture of Bin Laden dead will actually look anything like Bin Laden when you bear in mind his head was probably blown to pieces by close-range gunfire :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Hawleytastic!

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I don't want to join the bandwagon on all of this and this photo does not express my view..but for a bit of satire I couldn't but help love this.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Hawleytastic!
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Jeeez - the guy on the right with all the medals looks like me! - well I'm a bit fatter with less hair and probably several years older...

I bet he was on the Hawley Forum...

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