Richard Hawley

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Hawleytastic!
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:04 pm
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Location: Elephant & Castle
I'm in a class of my own.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Geordie Admin Dominatrix
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:46 pm
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Location: Up my own arse
Shambolic Charm There are two and a half million unemployed and there are about half a million available jobs....So how do we go about this if we don't split those jobs into fewer hours?

John Keynes, the only economist who's theories have ever been proven to work, predicted that with the growth of machinery replacing workers, people would need to work less and be paid more. This hasn't transpired because the company owners and shareholders are just creaming off more and more profit. You only need to look at steelworks to see how few people they need to employ now compared to earlier times. This is not going to get better.



I've not made any generalisations in my post, but there are lots of things I'd like clarified in yours ....2.5m unemployed, 0.5m jobs. We don't know how many of those people are qualified for what proportion of those jobs.

If it was as easy as number crunching I'd be asking why there's a discrepancy of 2m people, why all of those jobs aren't taken.

Getting up to full employment without resorting to going to war is way, way more complex than that, but the fact remains that we still have a benefits system that is full of loopholes and a sector of society willing to exploit it, and that was my focus, the fact that although I still have a working class ethic I've moved away from that into what I perceive to be a different demographic.

And yes, accept that there is going to be a growth in part time positions but don't encourage those people who could work more hours, or full time, to work less hours by making up the shortfall with benefits!

It was predicted back in the early 90's that the advancement of technology and decline in our manufacturing industry would mean that part time working would become much more common - doesn't take an economist to work that one out, either - :) - and that's why we've seen the rise in the growth of IT and Contact Centres as opposed to any other industry

Shambolic Charm"
The papers encourage people to say "I'm working hard for peanuts, so should you", that's just turning worker against worker rather than organizing skilled workers to get the pay to which they should be entitled.


Fact is no one is making much money under this lot aside from their henchmen, which is the way we always knew that it would be. But I fail to see how it's pitting worker against worker, 'cos we're all broke - it's not as if I am witnessing anyone in my circle getting huge bonuses or pay rises for no effort.I see that at the top of the business scale tho, and that's what pisses me and everyone else off.

In order to have a skilled workforce you need a demand for a service or product and a workforce that is either already skilled up in that area or a willingness and aptitude to learn.

The fact that this country has to cater for people that have been out of work over certain periods of time, in the majority of cases not qualified for any branch of work in particular, suggests to me that yes, there's a fair proportion of people (and not all, I know there are many, many people who desperately want to work, but can't find employment)who haven't looked for work or taken the responsibility to get trained up as hard as they could have.

So tax payers fund these 'Initiatives', the unemployment figures are massaged because these people are put on placement schemes, so aren't technically unemployed - at least in the short term - and on it goes.

During the recession in the 80's my husband, a well qualified pipe fitter, was out of work. So he drove taxis and I took on shifts at the local pub as well as doing my full time job as a manager in a Government department to make ends meet. Nothing like the areas we were trained in, but needs must.

Those types of jobs are still there, but I really don't see that attitude in force very much now.

In recent years we've seen a huge rise in Contact Centres - anyone who has worked in one, as I have, will be able to tell you about the strict regime and the fairly unhealthy work practices within, but, as highlighted by Paul O'Grady's programme, Contact Centres are now very much our 'Industry' the way the mines used to be.

So if I was in the unenviable position of looking for work, and couldn't find anything within my skills set, Contact Centres and IT would be the areas I'd be looking to skill myself in, or I'd be looking for part time work in a bar or a shop if my lifestyle dictated that I could work part time or if my finances allowed.

Even if I didn't really fancy that type of work.

But what I WOULDN'T be doing would be expecting the tax payer to keep me or thinking that it was anyone's responsibility but my own. And it's attitude that I'm talking about, not the economics of getting the country back to work.

Any situation can be exploited and we're now seeing the vile up rising of pay day loan companies and zero hour contracts - equally as bad as the concept of benefit manipulation.

On it goes, no easy answer....but at least I know I have a bloody good work ethic, and if I'm ever in the position of needing to claim benefit I've paid my share into the system.

And I haven't fully read your link yet, but thanks for that - I base all of my observations and comments that I witness at work and in my private life, together with independent (as far as you can trust them to be!) opinions that I read in the media.

I'll be interested to know where the data comes from - it should all be in the public domain, and I'll have a proper look when I have time.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Too much time on my hands
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:11 pm
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Location: South East
I'm no number cruncher but I do try and absorb a few facts these days because all I see in the papers is blown up exaggerations, always biased against people, many of whom have been unfortunate to have their jobs destroyed by the banking shenanigans (nearly 1 million more unemployed since then). You would think that all unemployed people are scrounging, layabouts and as for the disabled well they are all first class con merchants from the info - all anecdotal.
I'm not having a go at you, I just instinctively feel the need to balance the constant negative views about those on benefits. I could tell stories of people I know. Some on 60 hour shift work, having to claim benefits because they don't get enough to live on. The teacher kicked out of her job because of an unfounded accusation, that even though cleared stops her being chosen for any teaching position, then whilst applying for jobs deceptively kicked off any kind support. The disabled people I know losing their cars so they are unable to afford to get to work. The health workers that are driven so hard, to the point of breakdown, who have a clause written in their contract that allows the company to dump them if they are too ill for too long. The paramedics that burn out and yet don't get enough to live on. I just don't see this side represented. I have a friend that works in the CAB that could go on all day on this side of things.

Here's a load of work related statistics by the way, with their sources.

http://fullfact.org/finder/economy/work

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Geordie Admin Dominatrix
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:46 pm
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I think my original observations on 'class' and attitude have been lost a bit, but I do appreciate your views SC


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