Richard Hawley

Funny that you mentioned Stock Aitken and Waterman, this thread made me think of them - they ruled the charts for a couple of years and I liked some of it. They were very of their time, just like X Factor stuff is now.

Bit of a difference with X Factor 'tho = SAW and Motown didn't milk their acts the way Cowell does - and in Motown's case everyone could actually sing.

Oh I'm in a mischevious devils advocate mood...

Maggie -

There's an argument that could be made that Motown mostly made a lot of sanitised soul music, it stripped it of all its preoccupations with sex, religion, & social issues to make it more palatable for a cross racial audience and therefore made soul music, in some people's eyes, a blander version. Not all of it was obviously, there's an occasional What's Going On for one - which incidentally Berry Gordy didn't want to put out *because* it was too political and called it the worst record he'd ever heard.

I don't think that matters at all personally, it's the tunes at the end of the day that count, but again there's a similarity there when Cowell etc get accused of making bland music. I'm *not* defending him or the music he and his ilk put out, just pointing out parallels. Xenomania are the current Holland, Dozier, Holland etc etc. Time is the ultimate judge of quality, nothing else.

As for milking, have a listen to Martha Reeves & Vandellas's Heatwave, Live Wire, & Quicksand. They're all the same song..!

Subjective opinion who can sing, a *lot* of people love that Mariah Carey warbling bollocks. We just don't.

You liked SAW back in the day when you were younger, you weren't "wrong" to like them if you did - there's some stuff I used to love when I was a kid that makes my ears bleed now but I loved it at the time. Who's to say that anyone getting enjoyment out of something like that is any less worthwhile than someone getting enjoyment out of "proper" music? A snob, for want of a kinder word, says that, that's who.

Don't get me wrong, 99% of the time ( I reserve that 1% for the occasional guilty pleasure) *I'm* the worst musical snob you could meet and I loathe the preoccupation with X Factor, the music that comes out of it, and the music industry's short sightedness. I just do my best to ignore it and acknowledge that it's music that's not made for me/us, it's made for an audience that's *always* been around and always will be, ie: one that likes crap

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Comparing Motown to SAW or any of the stuff Cowell peddles is something I won't even entertain. People who watch X Factor are just suckers for marketing, it's popular because it's cleverly marketed, motown was popular because it was good. Pop music yes, but listen to the production values, the quality of the musicianship. X Factor is the same pantomime every week for the past 5 years, the same trite single released just in time for christmas, the same judges who can't sing/know little about music, it's infantile.

Interesting article and interviews here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oc ... y-x-factor

I particularly found the Steve Brookstein interview revealing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2 ... brookstein

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"Desperation to turn his love for music into a way of making a living had driven him to X Factor, which always noted, and at times viciously mocked, his lack of desire to be famous – this was interpreted as a kind of insulting apathy, as opposed to a desire just to make music and sing songs and earn an adequate living. It wasn't fame he wanted. It was, genuinely, music, and the ability to make music, in his way, in his own time.

The desperation remains, and ultimately, as is often the case, it's the kind of desperation that actually gets in the way of any kind of relative success"

Interesting reading - That bit made me feel really sad .....

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Who is it about?

Just seen Steve Brookstein, duh!!

if the kids sing 'fight for this love' at school, i just change it to 'fart for this love'. i'm going to start a rock club at dinner times and it's going to be totally elitist. i walked through school with an ac/dc tshirt on today and i couldn't believe the reaction from a lot of the kids. it gives me a bit of hope. they lost their minds when i said i was thinking of doing the rock club.

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