Richard Hawley

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:44 pm 
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snapper wrote:
and I can't bear either of their voices


but for me George Harrison had BY FAR the best voice of the beatles in my opinion, just listen to some of his singing, so gentle and melodic 8) mind you Macca can sing like a bird when he is inclined to.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:42 am 
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Sir-Twangalot wrote:
Very true Richard - I don't have a particular downer on them - just that I prefer the original recordings of the rock and roll stuff.
I guess, in the context of the period, then yes - hats off to them for sticking to their guns and recording material that went against the grain of Cliff/Bobby Vee/Bobby Rydell etc and giving folks a heads up about Carl Perkins + The Miracles etc..... I always preferred the Stones for covering other peoples records though - in fact I prefer the Stones version of Lennon + McCartney's 'I wanna be your man'.

They did have a great vision about music though - but for me it kicks in at around late '64/'65 when some beautiful and original stuff was being produced. I listen to them often


My last word on the Beatles is that their impact on British pop/rock was incredible at the time. Their reportoire obviously included early rock and roll songs - the music they played during thier "apprenticeship" in Liverpool and Hamburg. They were still very young men when they made it big - few people reach their peak professionally (in any career) at the ages they were in 62'. Beatles music evolved over 6/7 years as they learned their craft under George Martin's guidance. It is easy to look at a "back catalogue" and critique the early stuff but if you were there at the time as I was (I am very old!) each single/album was significant and usually better than the last.
I have to agree that not much of the post-Beatles music was as good with a few noticable exceptions. The mix of Lennon's "edginess", McCartney's melodies and George's occasional but significant songs was much stronger than their individual work.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:53 am 
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Somebody objects to Ringo............... at least in plant form!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:50 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Solowise, Harrison's All Things Must Pass is the best solo Beatles LP. Poppy, Rocky, Soulful and Folky all in one. Great stuff.

But all of them had their excellent solo moments.Lennon's early stuff like Instant Karma, Cold Turkey and the Plastic Ono Band stuff is fantastic. as is McCartney's first solo album and his Ram LP with Linda (his recent Chaos and Creation in the Backyard is pretty spot on also for that matter). Ringo also made some great pop 45s, 'Photograph' and 'It Don't Come Easy' being the best.

But they never equalled what they did together, becuase the chemistry of those four people was so special, the leap they made after Ringo joined is pretty incredible. They recorded together (professionally) for less than 8 years and went from crafted perfect pop songs like She Loves You and Eight Days A Week to the epicness of things like A Day In The Life, Tomorrow Never Knows, Strawberry Fields (all considered John songs, but were all very much collaborations - with Paul at least) in the time it takes most bands today to record a single album, though thats partly the industrys fault. As Longpigsdad says, they grew with every record they made.

They also had no fear with what they were recording. They wanted to do something, they did it. There's a great clip on Anthology with McCartney talking about the singles other people were releasing at the time, he was saying that the new Supremes single would be like the last one, but just a bit different and they as a band found that a bit boring. They were always trying to go that bit further, try that new idea, see what they could do with it. Like in 'From Me To You' when they went into minor chords for the middle 8, or the backwards vocals on Rain.

What they managed to do though was soak up and to take on board all of the great music that had become them and going on around them and then take it somewhere else. Even things like She Loves You is a departure musically and performance wise from Elvis, Gene Vincent and the like. They also had the experience to be able to do things like Long Tall Sally one minute, Everybodys Trying To Be My Baby the next and then You Really Got A Hold On Me the next without it sounding forced, they just loved the music.

They made the music their own but at the same time they never lost though the love of rock'n'roll, when they were making things like Pepper, they went home early one night to watch 'The Girl Can't Help It' on TV. The Get Back sessions are full of recordings of their favourite rock and roll numbers, but at the same time they wanted to try other things.

It obviously helps though when you have two of the most creative and skilled song writers in history in your group.

I'll shut up now, basically I think the Beatles pretty fucking great.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:09 pm 
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Hot Charity wrote:
It obviously helps though when you have two of the most creative and skilled song writers in history in your group.

I'll shut up now, basically I think the Beatles pretty fucking great.


Enough revisionist rubbish - Hot Charity you hit the nail on the head .People who don't like The Beatles don't like music in my book .


8)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:16 pm 
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luckyman wrote:
Hot Charity wrote:
It obviously helps though when you have two of the most creative and skilled song writers in history in your group.

I'll shut up now, basically I think the Beatles pretty fucking great.


Enough revisionist rubbish - Hot Charity you hit the nail on the head .People who don't like The Beatles don't like music in my book .


8)


That's a bit harsh :wink: , we all have different tastes and I think it is fair to say that the only music we will all like is Richard's, other than that,as the saying goes, each to his own.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:04 pm 
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i had a conversation with a very academic and clever art history lecturer where i proposed that nobody in any creative field (film, literature, painting, whatever) had travelled as far as quickly as the beatles.

from love me do, to tomorrow never knows in just 4 years !!

unbelievable....

my pal scratched his head for a bit and just agreed.
i was shocked cos he's always one to debate a point.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:23 pm 
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beaux nidle wrote:
i had a conversation with a very academic and clever art history lecturer where i proposed that nobody in any creative field (film, literature, painting, whatever) had travelled as far as quickly as the beatles.

from love me do, to tomorrow never knows in just 4 years !!

unbelievable....

my pal scratched his head for a bit and just agreed.
i was shocked cos he's always one to debate a point.


Can't argue with that at all. Tomorrow Never Knows is a pivotal song of the 60's & to go from inane guff (:wink:) to that takes some doing. But... I...just...don't.. like... them very much.

Which, though I do admire them, means I don't like music apparently. I've met so many Beatles fans with that attitude.. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:56 pm 
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Tomorrow Never Knows 'pivotal'. Are you kidding? Thunderball pisses on i...sorry. I'll get me coat...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:59 pm 
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philistine















:wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:47 pm 
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snapper wrote:
Doesn't anyone think Tomorrow Never Knows is the best Beatles song? A song *way* ahead of its time, genius.

However in my opinion I also do think they are overrated generally. Personally Hendrix, The Stones, Velvet Underground, The Who, The Doors, & The Stooges all had a much greater influence on the stuff that I listen to that came after the 60's. Not to say I think they're crap, they're clearly not - a mark of a great band is their cultural impact & they certainly had one, but from a personal point of view I can't stand the majority of their output. I find it on the whole to be sexless, often twee, and I can't bear either of their voices & especially those bloody harmonies - it's the musical equivalent of nails down a black board for me, a particular offender being Please Please Me - aaaargh... I've tried so hard to like them but it just doesn't seem to happen.



snapper wrote:
inane guff


are you waxing lyrical about the 'influential' (sniggers..) The Stooges again ? - musical pygmies and yes very inane lyrically - I can't think of one single thing they did ....The Beatles actually had 'bloody harmonies' and very complex ones at that .'The musical equivalent of nails down a black board' is a good description of The Velvet Underground and the pretentious and 'twee' Lou Reed .

The Beatles broke the mould for all of these groups that are written on the (minor) margins of Rock . 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:48 am 
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Richard Hawley wrote:
the beatles rule........the end they were ground breaking and musically fearless and peerless................the end


I'll add my assent to that one, boss! They were the "Big Bang" of popular music and nobody can have that huge an impact again; the world is thissmall now in the age of the internet and people have seen pretty much everything possible in terms of popular culture. People are welcome to their opinions and all that, but I'm adamant that anyone who considers them "overrated" just has no real grasp of how much they accomplished and how impressive those accomplishments were in the context of their time. The sounds you get just by plugging your guitar into a pedal or using ProTools? Thank The Beatles and George Martin (never downplay his contributions, either). Artists being encouraged, hell, allowed to write/perform their own material? They made that the norm. All this and much, much more in seven years? That's positively fuckin' mind-blowing.

Now, I have to confess that I have a small bit of sympathy who are just not impressed with them. Why, you ask? (hangs head in shame)

Because I've never been able to get into Elvis Presley, myself.

There, I said it.

Before I get banned :*: , let me say that I've never questioned the respect and adulation thrown his way; he was as revolutionary and ground-breaking in his way as The Beatles were in theirs. The fact that The Beatles themselves, as well as our esteemed Mr. Hawley and countless other musicians I respect, were/are such huge admirers of his makes me feel like I'm missing something, and that frustrates and saddens the hell out of me. As it stands, I revere Paul McCartney in the way Elvis is revered by so many others, and spring right to his defense when anyone badmouths him.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:14 am 
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luckyman wrote:
are you waxing lyrical about the 'influential' (sniggers..) The Stooges again ? - musical pygmies and yes very inane lyrically - I can't think of one single thing they did ....The Beatles actually had 'bloody harmonies' and very complex ones at that .'The musical equivalent of nails down a black board' is a good description of The Velvet Underground and the pretentious and 'twee' Lou Reed .

The Beatles broke the mould for all of these groups that are written on the (minor) margins of Rock . 8)


It's just my opinion. As was clearly inferred. You like The Beatles, I prefer The Stooges. No biggie. I do like music however. Condescending Beatles fans though? I'll pass.. but thanks for conforming to the stereotype.

" 8) "

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:42 am 
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Bloodshift, believe me I get you :*: You don't like music!

I wish I did like The Beatles I really do, I appreciate their impact & everything. I just can't stand listening to them. :roll: I consider them "overrated" only within a personal context. That is while The Beatles may have (oh alright Everyman, did, if you must) pioneered a lot of stuff that subsequent bands I like took & ran with, those bands in my opinion (did you get that Everyman?) went on, developed it, & did it better than they did. And that could be said about The Beatles & their influences yes? Did Helter Skelter influence The Stooges? Damn right it did. But give me *all* of Funhouse or Raw Power over that tune.

I'm reasonably sure there's no right or wrong about this viewpoint.

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