Richard Hawley

May I just say I agree with you Nic...........................you cant write poems without instinct.........................and Richard certainly has a gift for instinctive words....................

Hello Richard

First time posting so please be gentle with me.

Re conversations on poetry.You profess not to know about iambic pentameters and the like (or whatever they're called) but have you ever thought that dearth of these does not neccessarily mean you aren't writing poetry (of a sort)?

I am only commenting because I'm wondering if songs and poetry are interchangeable as it were.

Cheers for now

Phil King

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Above all be yourself: everyone else is taken (Oscar Wilde)

*WELCOME TO THE FORUM PHIL!!*....................and I know you meant the query for a certain Mr Hawley but thought I would just say that I think poetry and songs can turn out very interchangeable!!................

....................and Richard does have a beautiful way with words!!

Cheers Jane

Just a general observation really......not necess. need Mr Hawley to answer specifically but would be interested.

Unfortunately there is rather too much snobbery in this country over poetry and such methinks. Most poetry although good (but often maligned) is unfortunately not as accessible as that in (good) song lyrics to the general public. Therefore pop music has an important job to keep the artform alive (pretentious sounding twaddle I know but I hope you see what I mean?!).

TTFN

Phil K.

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Above all be yourself: everyone else is taken (Oscar Wilde)

i dont think it is pretentious at all. tbh im not a great poetry reader but i am rather obsessed by lyrics and when they move you they are as worthy as any poem imho.

someone wrote me a poem once i was very touched at the time but can only remember one line of it now it was that long ago! ha.

I'm leaving Lady Solitude behind me, you understand

pentameter is a 5 beat line (each beat is in bold above)-actually this line's in 'loose' pentameter, which the Boss seems to have done instinctively. All that i.p. is is a fancy latin way of naming something that happens quite naturally. Good poetry/songs have some kind of rhythm, even if it's irregular...sorry to be such a spod about this...

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'The art of losing isn't hard to master
So many things seem filled with the intent
to be lost that their loss is no disaster'

Elizabeth Bishop

http://nicholadeane.wordpress.com

Please don't be sorry, I think your explanations are fabulous, words can be so great and powerful.

(Mind, there's nothing like a good tune either!)

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Just like ringing a bell.

thats a beautiful song - i wish we had had teachers like you, i remmeber the selections for GCSE poetry being awful when we did it... and if you start taking the kids lady solitude thats even better - lucky little sods

good choice of song. They lyrics for the whole of the no more shall we part album are pure poetry too in my opinion.

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http://www.myspace.com/lukemurcott

I agree with Nic & John, Lime Tree Arbour is a beautiful song, Nick Cave has a gift with words.

Most of the material is actually not that bad (see Carol Ann Duffy on necrophilia, or the poem in which Shakespeare goes down on Ann Hathaway). Poems like that generally elicit a good response. No, it's teaching to the exam that makes it a bore:

STUDENT X: Miss, aren't we gonna do something fun today?
ME: Don't be daft! This is English-and your GCSE's in 4 weeks and we still haven't covered blah blah blah & blah....so let's do some annotation, eh?
CLASS: [groans]
ME: [groans on the inside]

Teaching Music & Poetry like that's a luxury (it shouldn't be) & this does my effing nut. Will stop now before this turns into War & Peace...

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'The art of losing isn't hard to master
So many things seem filled with the intent
to be lost that their loss is no disaster'

Elizabeth Bishop

http://nicholadeane.wordpress.com

Wish we had teachers like you, nic!

The poetry we did for last year's exam was pretty dire. It didn't help that we had a painfully boring teacher, though

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Breathe in, breathe in, breathe out.

Van Morrison's lyrics stand alone as poetry too; some of them are beautiful if you just read them aloud.

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Always be a first rate version of yourself, instead of a second rate version of somebody else (Judy Garland)

'Lo Sunflower



I think we've got our wires crossed and i think you will find me agree on song lyrics as being just as much a hotbed of poetry (Pretentious was a possible reference to my posting - hope not).

Nic Deane

Not a spod at all.

It's these intimidating terms that can be quite off putting when they're describing something quite basic I s'pose. But like you say good poetry/songs have them anyway without you needing to know what they are (altho' it is interesting to know about them anyway).

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Above all be yourself: everyone else is taken (Oscar Wilde)

yeah - i mean no, i didnt think you were bein pretentious. i was agreeing with you

sorted. ha.